Removed references?

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Edited by author.
Last edit: 07:06, 26 January 2013

Hey Klaxxin,

Was just wondering why you removed the pop culture references that I added to a few items, but chose not to remove the actual references field that I added to the items template. I think the pop culture references are among the best things about LoaTS, but I occasionally run across one that I don't fully recognize, and I thought the wiki would be a good place to provide information about them.

TomTheHand (talk)15:26, 25 January 2013

While I support the notion of providing pop culture references about items.

Maybe there is a better way such as a page listing references? Possibly there is a way you could just add them all in one place, like and index. If it is on the item page maybe we can put an optional section in the template.

Klaxxin and Lorak990 are the LotS admins so I will defer to them as to how to handle it. I think you have a great idea there Tom.

Zoycite (talk)06:29, 26 January 2013

I had added an optional section to the template, and then I added pop culture references to about half a dozen items. Not very many, I admit, but I tried to do more than just list the names of movies/shows/books that were referenced. Check out an example. I actually think this is much better than adding them all in one place; such a page would have hundreds of different entries. The references thread in the official forums is awful.

TomTheHand (talk)07:05, 26 January 2013

Ah Might have been because it was on the item card itself or something. I am not sure. Maybe should have an optional reference card/section displayed below the item card. Klaxxin can better answer maybe since he deleted.

Zoycite (talk)18:48, 26 January 2013

I can't recall why I removed the references stuff. I think it was because there were fewer than ten references (of the thousands of items currently on the wiki), and I thought that it was inconsistent to display so few references.

I probably removed the references around the time I reformatted the item card. IIRC, I knew about the large number of pop-culture reference in LotS, and so I chose not to remove the "reference" field from the item card, but did remove the field from the item pages.

Here's where I stand on references: if you can promise me that you'll add every reference you know, or that you can dig up on the forums, I'll support it, and I'll fix up the item card template as necessary.

If you are not committed to being the "reference person", and are unwilling to take ownership of the project, then lets leave the references off the wiki, or put references on a single page. I don't want to do 1% of a huge job and have the wiki look less polished as a result. The references stuff is too complex and time-consuming and hardcore to expect that your average wiki denizen is going to pick up the slack and add references. It has to be done by one or two dedicated editors. It'll take weeks or months to finish, and someone will have to add new references as new content comes in.

As for myself, I've probably done more than 5,000 edits on the LotS wiki (don't know the exact number). At the moment, I am unwilling to take on this project.

Klaxxin (talk)01:18, 27 January 2013

Here is one idea... since a lot of games contain references to things why dont we just add a template similar to Template:SubA that make a references display. Example of SubA on Template:LoH/Card. That way we have somethign we can easily tack onto the bottom of pages

Zoycite (talk)10:04, 27 January 2013

That's a bit of a problem atm, given the way I set up the item template to include the ad at the bottom of the page. Maybe you could integreate the bottom-of-the-page ad into the wiki core and then I can remove it from the templates...

Klaxxin (talk)19:40, 27 January 2013

Undoubtedly you'll be skeptical at this point, but I'd like to try my hand at being the "reference person". I'll start when I have an afternoon free.

TomTheHand (talk)03:40, 1 February 2013

Not that anyone at all asked my opinion, but the typical "wiki" thing to do when starting a new project like this is to have the person or persons involved store up a decent portion of the work on either their personal pages or just on their local hard drive, and then apply all those changes in a single sitting. That way when users see it, there's already a decent amount of content, and it never has to look unpolished.

This is somewhat speaking from experience as well. I've made some changes in the past that I unintentionally left in an unpolished state on the public pages, and a wiki is only as nice as its crappiest pages.

All that being said, I'm looking forward to the seeing the references stuff. I think it'll be cool, though I'm not a good enough reference guy to actually help a whole lot.

Doomcat (talk)04:58, 1 February 2013

Doomcat, I... sort of wish I'd thought of that. I'm used to using a personal "sandbox" when working on a single complex page, and it's normally not useful to store up a bunch of minor edits, but in this case the majority of the work is in writing rather than making masses of similar edits. I'll put it here, and we can decide later whether or not to have one big page or a small section on each article.

TomTheHand (talk)15:12, 1 February 2013

sounds awesome. I hope it become great

Zoycite (talk)09:58, 1 February 2013

personally i think it clutters the item card, I notice some of the references when i'm making the pages, but I'd rather it linked to a section on a references page similar to the lab experiments, then you could just link to a whole section for say cybercop, all lore is a robocop reference rather than adding it to each page

Lorak990 (talk)06:07, 1 February 2013

on that note should we have a References wiki section which is sort of like tropes in their respective games? Then we can just link to our "trope" page for it on the item, npc, etc...

I am trying to think of a solution for more than just LotS here.

Zoycite (talk)10:01, 1 February 2013

In my opinion, the item pages are currently incredibly bare and would be far more useful with more information on them. Moreover, in a great many cases the issue's a lot more complex than "all cybercop gear is a robocop reference." I'm not arguing for a particular format to the references section; it could be bigger, smaller, higher, lower, or wrapped up in a spoiler tag. However, I can't see how the references section makes the article more difficult to read.

With all that said, I'm currently not worried about reinstating the references section; as I said above, I'm going to start collecting references in a personal sandbox. Once we have a few built up, we'll have something concrete to base our discussions on.

TomTheHand (talk)15:18, 1 February 2013

sounds awesome. ill try to come up with maybe a good way to make references on a wiki-wide basis.

Zoycite (talk)12:35, 2 February 2013

If we decide to do references, we may want transcluded templates ala the "How to Obtain" box on Legacy of Heroes (was this what you were saying up above, Zoy?). That way, contributors can add references. The references box would appear separate from the Item Card. This may be a bad solution, give how few of the "How to Obtain" references have been filled on the LoH Wiki. Also, this solution will interfere with ad placement as well as with item cards that have container lists appended underneath. If we choose this option, it means that we'll have to shuffle some content.

I agree with Lorak that just putting this info onto the main item card will make the card look cluttered.

If you can think of something better, Zoy, that'd be super.

Tom, I'm willing to give the references a shot. Incorporating what Doomcat said, I'd like to see 100 or more reference entries before you push the content live on the wiki. If you can do that many, I'm willing to trust that you'll finish the rest. Once you've got the content together, we can finish the discussion as to how this information should be displayed on the wiki.

Klaxxin (talk)23:48, 2 February 2013

I was thinking of adding some kind of template like the how to obtain on LoH yes. I have an Idea to encourage content editing on more than just references. Simple links like "Add reference", "Add link", "Add ______", or something maybe link that, which is like a bulleted list. And if the reference or link or what have you exists then it displays a fancy box of some kind instead.

I am not worried about how it effects ad placement. We can work around them, place different units, etc. That is a very solvable problem that does not have to be worried about.

Tom will do the references, he said he would. We should make sure to give him all the tools to do it, and come to some kind of agreement as well as how it will be done.

More on my idea:

So my idea is that links would appear Like this

Then if say there was a reference it would display a Template:SubA or similar template with the content of [[page/reference]]. And then the list of content to add would only display:

It would only display those 2 because the SubA template has an edit link on it.

Zoycite (talk)16:43, 5 February 2013