New engineering items

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(Not sure which admin(s) to contact) I've created pages for the new Engineering items that will be available from the upcoming world raid. I didn't have time to type in all the abilities and text, though (is there a way to copy-paste those?). I also don't know how to get the images. And I wasn't sure what you guys would do about the one that takes the player's name.

I also moved the Shipyard plans because the names were updated, not sure if you guys usually delete redirects.

Let me know if I can help more, when I have the time for it.


Bobogoobo (talk)21:48, 29 August 2013

The item that takes the player's name will probably be named <playername> or something that works in the wiki URLs because <playername> is the placeholder used on the wiki. Lorak can help you get the images. With a few exceptions, I believe the wiki gets images from the game files. I've been enforcing a tacit no-redirect policy on this wiki, with the exception of redirects created for likely or common misspellings or terms that others might use to reach a particular page.

I have one very, very difficult issue that you may, with your wiki expertise, be able to solve. This problem affects the last item row on the raid templates. If, for example you look at the CC Commander Loot page, you'll notice that text in right-most cell in the bottom row is pushed up against the top of the top cell wall, and this makes the last row artificially larger than the other rows. If you highlight the last cell, it appears to be made up of at least seven invisible sub-cells. If you can find a better way to assemble these pages, or a way to fix this problem, I'd be obliged.

Klaxxin (talk)03:32, 30 August 2013

I like tackling difficult wiki questions, so I had a look at this. Basically you just have to nest the if commands, like in Template:LotS/LootRow, so I went ahead and changed Template:LotS/EpicLootRow to do the same and it works properly. I feel like there should be a more elegant way to do this, but this at least works.

Plujan (talk)05:50, 30 August 2013

Thanks for that, I'd been meaning to take a look at it. If it's a whitespace issue with the table code, that's usually really hard to get around, so short of converting it to HTML your solution is probably the best.

Bobogoobo (talk)10:22, 30 August 2013

there is a lesser known/used wiki table syntax that can usually get around some of the white space issues using double pipes, either prefixing or post fixing the double pipes using Template:!! if you have to nest it.

Check it out here

Zoycite (talk)10:58, 30 August 2013

No, it's the new row code that is the issue. You can't put conditionals that evaluate to false on their own lines because each one will result in a blank line, which creates that extra space. But you can't start the next one on the same line as the end of the previous one either because then the |- goes at the end of the previous line, so the parser doesn't recognize it. Supposedly you can put a line break in nowiki tags at the beginning of the "then" portion to avoid that problem, but I've done that before and it didn't always work, plus it's more code. Nesting the calls works fine.

Bobogoobo (talk)11:59, 30 August 2013

ah yeah that is not a solvable problem. i know exactly what you are describing.

what is trying to be done is not parsable by the parser, in a desirable fashion. the order of operations needed do not exist / function that way.

I have no solution for you. Danxor and I are still trying to figure out a workaround. However I have determined there is no viable long term work around other than a redesign. And that design is still being figured out.


I have done some trickery in SNP2, but it is still not perfect. It does feature the problem. And I have gone with a best alternative though not perfect solution.

Zoycite (talk)12:03, 30 August 2013

Has making a template that transcludes a newline already been tried? Maybe that would work.

Bobogoobo (talk)12:09, 30 August 2013

i do not think i have tried it, however because the newline is white space, it likely will not be interpreted correctly as we are trying to use it as a template parameter.

This basically does not work:

{{Template|{{newline}}{{something else}}{{newline}} }}

Zoycite (talk)22:10, 2 September 2013

thanks for adding the engineering pages, I've made a start on the expeditions/facilities but have been busy of late so it may take me a little while to finish unless someone else dives in, I named that one (Playername) AI due to the <> parsing tags, also added the text/ability for the pages that exist, thinking there needs to be a category that all of the incomplete pages for a section can be tagged with say Category:LotS/Missing Info or the like and add a projects page to the main LotS portal for easy tracking, as the edits sometimes get lost in the logs.

Regarding images, i believe there was a guide on Doomcat's wall, or i update them once a week from the missing images category as time permits. if you have any questions drop me a message and i'll see what i can find out/lookup.

Lorak990 (talk)11:46, 30 August 2013

I don't see a guide there. I saw somewhere else someone (probably you) said they found the images directly on the server, but I wouldn't know where to look. I'd like to help if you can tell me how.

Found it lower on this page, I got it now.

Bobogoobo (talk)15:20, 30 August 2013

There are a bunch of redirects. I'm not sure which ones should be kept, but if you want I can give you a plaintext list of them for running through a bot which you could trim manually. Also, should the duplicates of File:LotS Schematic.png (plus "File:LotS Plans Within Plans.png" be redirected to it, or should they all be deleted?

Bobogoobo (talk)15:22, 30 August 2013

I can always be contacted for anything, but Lorak is most likely best to start with for LotS.

Basically if you post on either of our pages, or admin discussion forum, you are going to get about 10 responses. At least me personally I help because I like it. I might trail off into the technical, like I am about to do, but enjoy!

So the technical methodology behind Plujan's suggestion/change is this:

  • So the wiki parses is going along and it encounters something to parse such as a parse function, and it starts parsing it and running code.
  • Lets say you wanted to display a lot of attributes in a template based on positional parameters that one must be there for the next to appear and so on
    • Exmaple: {{LotS/Template|100|300|400}}
  • If Lots/Template takes 20 or 30 such positional parameters, then normally if the conditional parsing in the Template page took 1 parser function for each positional parameter, then it would take 20 or 30 parser function calls every time the template is used.
    • This is a problem if the template is used on other pages such as item list pages have 500 items and call it 1000 to 1500 times. Quickly makes pages load slow.
  • Now let's say we did what Plujan suggested
  • Instead of displaying calling the functions every time we only call the next if the previous positional parameter was used.
    • So in our example we are actually using 4 calls to the #if parser function.
    • {{LotS/Template|100|300|400}}
  • On the 4th call to the the #if parser function, it sees that there is no 4th positional parameter, and stops parsing.

Now we generalize the solution usually when doing this so it is outputting say a table row so that it can be used on just about any table of similar data such as guns and swords or something along those lines. Now it just works and the complicated-ness is dispelled, and some craziness ensues in a thread.

Zoycite (talk)09:56, 30 August 2013

Yeah, I was mostly doing to solve the new row problem (as was already accurately described upthread), and I realized that this would also have a performance benefit, so double win!

Speaking of which, I noticed that there are a few cases where a template has something like {{#if: {{{2|}}} | {{{2}}} | {{{1}}}}} It seems to me that in this case it would be simpler and cleaner to just write {{{2|{{{1}}}}}} Is there a compelling reason to not use the second form? I've made this change in a few of the LoH templates where I've noticed it can be done, but I wanted to make sure there's not something I'm missing...

Plujan (talk)08:50, 31 August 2013

we just tend to use the explicit form, rather than the short cut

Zoycite (talk)09:34, 31 August 2013

The problem with {{{2|{{{1}}}}}} is that if 2 if specified but blank, it will still be used, whereas #if won't use it if it is only whitespace. Which one is better, if either, depends on the situation.

Bobogoobo (talk)12:06, 31 August 2013

ah yeah valid point, for item card pages it is usually not a big deal.

it will be a problem if the variable is specified without a value in a template.


Zoycite (talk)22:13, 2 September 2013

Hey, I found a mistake and corrected it. <playername> AI def is 25 not 125.

Guitarwolf (talk)16:36, 2 September 2013

For the record, when I collected the Playername AI from the facilities, the title was %NAME%.

Bobogoobo (talk)22:52, 7 September 2013